3CTE Seemles torque monster mod

[Vorenus]

Following thread has been brought to this forum from the old .ORG forum. ClintJ is more than happy for this to happen and hopes, as I do, that content like this helps other users.

I was reading something on the net again about engine losses and why the diesel engine is so efficient.
The diesel engine is normally non throttle bodied. The engines are idle adjusted by fuel alone. Im sure we all know that one so lets move on.
Having a throttle plate causes pumping loses on an engine meaning that a vacuum created behind the plate adds resistance to the engines revolutions and try to slow it down.....
So I decided to embark on a throttle plate removal to my van.
I had to change my cranckcase breather setup but the whole process took just under 2hrs including 2 X 10min drives and some minor boost adjustments.
And like I said the result gives a seemless increase in torque as there is no throttle in the way to slow down the air.
I used very little throttle and the van moves away nicer than before.

My EGR port on the inlet manifold is blocked, so the EGR is the only reason that I can think of as to why our engines have a throttle plate.

SO to do the mod requires that you have blanked the egr port.
Remove your throttle body
Unscrew the 2 phillips head screws hold the plate in.
Rotate the throttle to full and slide the plate out.
Clean up all the muck and put back together.
Takes it for a spin and post your findings..
If you have problems with the 2 phillips head screws the you can drill them out like I did.
Im luckier than most as I have about 3 spares floating around so I could do a spare first then mount it up.

This mod should also increase fuel economy due to the restriction being removed..
My van isnt standard so a standard 3CTE will be very torquey with very slight throttle input....

Let us know how you go!

Clint

I have my original out. Will take some pics for the tutorial.
Its not that hard. Anybody who has ever taken there engine cover off before should be able to do this one standing on there head!
Clint

Here is an example of a bleed valve.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/JJR-In-Cabin-Boost-Controller-In-Red_W0QQitemZ370002711625QQihZ024QQcategoryZ130663 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

If the wastegate operates at 9psi and you want to run 15psi then bleeding off 6psi will mean that the turbo now has to produce 15psi to match the leak and open the wastegate.

Clint

The 3CT is already throtle bodyless. It has a mechanical pump and doesnt need it and apparently the electronic version doesnt need it.

Clint

I removed the throttle body from mine and found that the plate was unsurprisingly caked in black muck. Interestingly there was eight drilled holes in the plate which by the looks of them are non standard so obviously some one has done this in the past. Once i upload pictures I will post one here.

Vorenus

[Vorenus]

......continued

Okay uploaded my images so here goes. The first one shows the throttle plate. I found that someone seems to have drilled eight holes in the plate as the finish of the holes is rough which one would not expect with an OE item. Did you find this with yours ClintJ?




The following image is not too clear as it was washed out with the flash but is shows the air temperature sensor coated in black muck like the rest of the intake system




This last image was taken looking into the inlet manifold on the cylinder head. You can see the black muck and rough deposits lining the inside of it




It started to get dark and really cold so I stopped for the night as doing this outside. Going to clean the parts up, remove the throttle plate and put it back together in the morning. Will let you know how it goes.

Vorenus

[Vorenus]

............continued

Yep those 8 holes are there from toyota to help enough air flow through for idle. The plate does create a small vaccuum behind it but nothing like a petrol motor.

As for the oil/moss coating left behind, how could one emagine this being very efficient at flowing air through there???
Great job at posting the pics up Vorenus.
I think from there that its obvious on how to get the plate out.


Clint

I've a load more images for the whole removal, and i will get some more in the morning with the stuff all cleaned up and ready to go back. I was thinking of starting this thread on the new forum so people could follow it from there.


Did you notice what appears to be rough edge from drilling of the holes on the intercooler side of the throttle plate? I cleaned mine up and yes, the holes are original ones and it was the crud from the inlet manifold that had seeped through the holes making the rough appearance.


Can't wait to get it back together. Having to drill out screws as they are solid, soft metal and even a correct fitting screwdriver wrecks the heads. Must be fitted with thread fixer.

Vorenus

The last thing toyota needed was for a screw to come out of it as the clearance on these engines are minimal so thats why the screws are so hard to get out. I didnt drill all the way through the screw. Once I had enough to pull the plate out then I left the rest in and just filed the stubs down on the backside. Caution must be take in choosing your drill bit size. To big and the bit can move off center and you could take out the shaft.


Also Im just on my first tank since perfoming this mod and really want see what the outcome is in terms of fuel economy. Its great to have Vorenus back us up to prove that it works just as well on another van but let us check that this doesnt turn it into a gas guzzling monster first.

Vorenus I have spare throttle bodies and will happily replace yours if mileage is thrown right out of whack.


Clint

LOL, thanks.

I have done some research on the old 'net' and it seems a common thing to remove the plate AFTER blanking off EGR. Its only there so the EGR can work properly so once i get this back together and take it for a drive I can let you know.

Vorenus

Well I got it all back together this morning and have been driving around doing the Christmas shopping for most of the day.


Anyway immediate impressions are that its much smoother and quieter on acceleration. On the open roads going above the 2000rpm sees the power 'lift' significantly and the bus takes off much stronger. Hit 2500rpm and she just goes, pulling much stronger than ever. It never really did this before. Around the town power delivery is more, how can i say, flowing in and out. What I mean is you press the pedal and the bus picks up in response, you back off and she slows down smoothly, no more sort of momentary 'pause' before anything actually happens. Will need to do a weeks worth of driving to see if the fuel is affected in any way. Probably is because I am now enjoying pushing the old bus, rather than being gentle on her.



FWIW I removed the inlet manifold and degreased and cleaned it out. I also removed the throttle plate and fitting screws by drilling right through with a 4mm drill bit. I also degreased and cleaned out the elbow assembly before the throttle plate, including cleaning the air temp sensor which was caked in oil and crud. So maybe these factors all contribute to the new impression, not sure.

Vorenus

I got the exact same feeling. The cleanup of all the parts it will be hard to say but there has to be an improvement from the clean air passageways. Mileage isnt looking to bad on mine, the misus has be driving the most but it should see better mileage than before. Part of the seat of the pants improvement comes from the turbo being able to respond to the extra airflow with the restriction removed.. I watched my boost gauge and how smooth it transitions up and down in response to small throttle increments, where as before to get my larger turbo running required more throtle input to open up the plate more.

This is looking like a good mod with no real side effects.

Clint

I have some at home. I will look them out and post on here later.

Vorenus

[Vorenus]

..................continued

Here are the photo's from the strip down. Hope they help identify the throttle body location.




























Vorenus

[Vorenus]

...............continued

Okay, another day of driving around, as well as some dual carriageway driving. All I can say is there is a marked difference in the vehicle performance when travelling at 50mph where the vehicle is above 2000rpm. Press down on the accelerator and the vehicle launches itself with ease. Even driving around the town is a much better experience. Fuel seems to be going down just as it did before all though a subjective observation if that. Would require more accurate testing.


What I would say is that there is now a significant difference between driving around on diesel, as opposed to veg oil. With diesel the bus seems to come totally alive. On the veg oil its not so 'alive'. I mean it drives better than it did before, but not to the extent that the diesel seems to now offer.

Vorenus

Yes it would be, but can you suggest an easier way without fabrication to keep the setup similar. Also you need to consider that this engine is controlled by the ECU and the main driving component is the TPS or throttle posistion switch which determines a rough percentage how much fuel needs to be injected. Without this you would be pushing your car. This is one of the simplest mods that most members can do for nothing except their time. You could most probably bolt up a 3CT manifold but you still need the TPS.


ClintJ

Well have refilled the tank and the mileage has remained the same. This might increase on freeway runs as all of the driving done was city cycle.
So no negatives with 1 positive.

Clint

I drove my bus on dual carriageway at average of 70mph and it was much smother but more importantly there was a noticeable difference in the 50mph to 70 mph pickup, again in the 'above 2000rpm' range.


Fuel does not appear to be going down any more than usual. Almost ready to do a full refill so will be able to test it out more accurately but on the whole a much better driving experience.

Vorenus

Okay, almost a week on and no down sides to doing this. Car drives better than ever.


Fuel economy seems unchanged, well I aint using more fuel so thats the main thing.


I find their is now a marked difference between running veg or diesel. The later gives much better performance. There was not much distinction before doing the plate removal.

Vorenus

When I done the mod I had B100 in the tank. The next tank was B60 and the van does feel a bit more lively and the mileage looks a little bit better but I havent gone to fill up yet so I should speak too early..

No economy loss to speak of.

Vorenus

Yeah removing the plate is all it takes!!

2.5" is fine for an exhaust system. Im running a 3" but my turbo is much bigger than the standard turbo.

Clint

Block off or make inoperative the EGR. Remove the throttle plate as per vorenus's pics and the keep the sensors as per normal.

You should notice with the throttle plate gone that boost response and torque is increased. fuel economy should remain the same or get better due to the reduced pumping losses.

Clint

..............there are many ways to make the egr inoperative. As to wether the valve is shut or not due to seizure is not known unless puled down. Easiest way to be sure is to make a sheet metal blanking gasket and sandwich it blocking the port at the inlet manifold.

Vorenus

I blocked mine off at the location shown in previous picture. My EGR started playing up at times - i think jamming etc- so I removed it. Had blanking plates made up and used these to block opening off.

If you remove the egr assembly you need to blank off the vaccuum pipe. If you are handy with a solder iron you can solder a 13 ohm resistors across the wires on the egr solenoid plug. Simply disconnect the plug, solder the resitor in place and tape the plug up. This way the vaccuum pipes are blocked by the closed solenoid and the ECU thinks the solenoid is still there. Problem solved.

Vorenus

Vorenus, did you have issues with just unplugging the VSV or egr solenoid? Did it give fault codes and or change the performance of the engine?
Ive just diconnected mine but I dont get any engine warning light because mine does not work.. But car seems fine.

Clint

WHen at idle or low speed the vaccum control solenoid opens and if disconnected can bleed off vaccumm from the pumped vaccum circuit. I simply disconnected the electric connectoron the solenoid and soldered 13 ohm resistor across wires. Tape it up. SO ECU happy as it thinks egr connected, pipes blocked off by solenoid and no issues.

Vorenus

[djdigitald]

I myself an not new to tuning mechanical diesels. This was my Mondeo MK2 TD that is 89bhp as standard and was running at 130bhp.









It had the following engine modifications: -

BK Racing large cone filter with 2 cold air feeds, and Pipercross cold air feed extension.
Pre-boost Fuelling (idling) advanced - (this makes the car a lot quicker at low revs from dead before the turbo kicks in).
Dawes Device boost controller.
Front intercooler conversion consisting of several pieces of Samco hosing, bracketry, steel pipe, Escort RS turbo charge carrier (polished and modified to fit), large Saab 9000 intercooler.
Custom made Collins twin piston dump valve with Spec-R box, electronic controller, EGR solenoid, micro switch and Samco hosing.
Throttle mechanism shock absorber removed for easier revving.
Braided hoses around fuel pump, turbo and boost controller.
Twin exit stainless steel Powerflow exhaust (cat-back) custom cut into rear bumper.
Silver braided pipe covers to hoses etc

I have to admit the boost controller and SAAB FMIC bad the world of difference which enabled me to run at 19psi instead of the standard 15psi. Like i said the above changes increase to bhp by 40 and increased the torque as well. Throttle response was much better and there was next to no lag either.

[mr mince]

Still haven't got round to doing this, will do it one day, would love a little extra kick to the bus

[SNAKEYES]

Originally Posted by mr mince

Still haven't got round to doing this, will do it one day, would love a little extra kick to the bus

So you can be pulled by the police again for being a proper boyracer

[mr mince]

Originally Posted by SNAKEYES

So you can be pulled by the police again for being a proper boyracer

Might as well get done properly

On second thoughts, I'm already at 8 points (from clean 2 years ago) on my licence since getting this bus I probably shouldn't even fix my turbo never mind modding anything

[kdam36]

damn good post.......looks like i`l be stripping my inlet manifold appart very soon !