3 Litre Estima surging.

robdrinkwater · 16th March 2008, 08:21 PM

Hi all,
A question to all of you with the 3 litre Estima.

Do any of you have an engine surging problem. It is most apparant with our during the warmup cycle. It can be so bad some days that it will try to push you into the car in front in a queue, even though you are holding it on the foot brake. It gets better, almost to the point of no problem at all when she is warmed fully.

However, there is still a problem even then, as you can feel it surging when you are cruising, almost like you have just put your foot down a bit more, then it will back off to where it was before. Most disconcerting when you are cruising.

I have looked at the Lexus forum, they have a similar problem with some of the RX300s (same engine of course) where they seem to have a surge, but their problem seems to have been traced by the dealers to the autobox ECU, ours is definately an engine issue. I have already thrown a rear camshaft sensor, a rear lambda sensor at the car since buying it, I just don't want to throw more money at it unless I have a definitve cure.

If I watch the live data on a scan tool, I can see the rear bank of VVTi adjusting, but the front bank keeps cutting in and out at around 3000RPM. Anyone any idea if I should just see a gradual change of cam timing, or wshould it snap in & out.

Another Idea, is there anyone with a 3 litre Estima that runs well in the West London/Middlesex area that I could come around & look at your live data on a scan tool to see what it should be, then I can make an educated guess as to what is making it run badly.

Maybe a VVTi valve or something else.

Hope to hear a wave of answers as to what it might be.

Kind regards, Rob.

lisboa · 16th March 2008, 08:35 PM

you may have are hard one to answer .but try bob .who knows theses buses inside out .he may be able to put you right .Home .or some one may come along soon good luck

E5TMA · 16th March 2008, 08:42 PM

had mine since October & have had no problems of "Surging" sorry..

Have you searched the web for "Camary V6" ...uses the same engine (1MZ-FE)

robdrinkwater · 18th April 2008, 11:31 PM

Finally got to the bottom of the surging on our 3 litre Estima.

I spent ages on it on Wednesday going over all the sensors with my oscilloscopes.

Eventually found that the camshaft control solenoid for the rear bank (bank 1) of cyliders was loose in the head & was simply moving back & forth rather than operating the camshaft timing mechanism. Now that the camsaft timing is working correctly on both banks of cylinders she doesn't surge or leap forward when in the warm up phase.

The bad news is that this has been the same ever since the new engine was fitted, so that say that the clown who fitted the engine never actually bolted this component in place when he rebuilt the engine.

Just wish I had found the problem sooner, it has made the car drivable now, which it was annoying to drive before due to the surging.

Regards, Rob.

Frenchman · 18th April 2008, 11:55 PM

Why did the engine need rebuilding?

Frenchman

robdrinkwater · 19th April 2008, 01:02 AM

The **** garage that our importer used managed to service the car before we bought it, unfortunately they forgot to put the oil in & started the car, the engine seized a few moments later.

Fortunately we claimed on their insurance & they had to fork out for a new short engine, which our heads & ancilliaries were bolted onto, unfortunately they happend to use a company called UK PARTS in West Bromwich. This company managed to do the following to the car, most of which I did not discover until after receiving the car:

Removed the engine management light bulb, to try to cover up all the problems.
Refitted a rear lambda sensor that had a faulty heater circuit. (now replaced)
Refitted a faulty rear camshaft sensor. (Now replaced)
Incorrectly fitted the rear camshaft solenoid valve. (now refitted correctly)
Failed to fit several rocker cover bolts, causing oil leaks. (now refitted & cured)
Neglected to refit several bolts around the engine bay. (lead to power steering pipes flapping around near pulleys)
Snapped off split pins on track rod ends & failed to drill out & refit same.
Refitted steering wheel upside down. (now how dumb is that)

Needless to say the impoter paid for all this & I paid him considerably less for the car than the original agreed price.
I haven't bothered to take the car back to UK Parts, as they are totally incompetent & would probably break or bodge something else. I'm just going through Trading Standards in Birmingham now, so hoepfully we should see some compensation & a prosecution shortly.

Regards, Rob.

Frenchman · 19th April 2008, 08:03 AM

Right, they sound like a right professional lot

I hope you get some compensation out of them, I bet every time you drive the car now you will be worried something else is going to happen.

Frenchman

robdrinkwater · 20th April 2008, 04:24 PM

I'm reasonably confident that we have got to the bottom of all the car's woes now, I have had the code reader on & off it since we got it, having replaced so many items. She seems pretty nice to drive now, so hope all is well.
Luckily I am in the trade, indeed I teach about vehicle technology, so this stuff is pretty everyday for me, it's just finding the time to do it. It was fortunate that I happened to be with a garage on Wednesday & used the Estima as a donor vehicle for testing, hence we found this problem.

Regards, Rob.

16th March 2008, 08:21 PM	#1 (permalink)
robdrinkwater Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 37	3 Litre Estima surging. Hi all, A question to all of you with the 3 litre Estima. Do any of you have an engine surging problem. It is most apparant with our during the warmup cycle. It can be so bad some days that it will try to push you into the car in front in a queue, even though you are holding it on the foot brake. It gets better, almost to the point of no problem at all when she is warmed fully. However, there is still a problem even then, as you can feel it surging when you are cruising, almost like you have just put your foot down a bit more, then it will back off to where it was before. Most disconcerting when you are cruising. I have looked at the Lexus forum, they have a similar problem with some of the RX300s (same engine of course) where they seem to have a surge, but their problem seems to have been traced by the dealers to the autobox ECU, ours is definately an engine issue. I have already thrown a rear camshaft sensor, a rear lambda sensor at the car since buying it, I just don't want to throw more money at it unless I have a definitve cure. If I watch the live data on a scan tool, I can see the rear bank of VVTi adjusting, but the front bank keeps cutting in and out at around 3000RPM. Anyone any idea if I should just see a gradual change of cam timing, or wshould it snap in & out. Another Idea, is there anyone with a 3 litre Estima that runs well in the West London/Middlesex area that I could come around & look at your live data on a scan tool to see what it should be, then I can make an educated guess as to what is making it run badly. Maybe a VVTi valve or something else. Hope to hear a wave of answers as to what it might be. Kind regards, Rob.

16th March 2008, 08:35 PM	#2 (permalink)
lisboa Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: stratford east london Posts: 303	you may have are hard one to answer .but try bob .who knows theses buses inside out .he may be able to put you right .Home .or some one may come along soon good luck __________________

16th March 2008, 08:42 PM	#3 (permalink)
E5TMA Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Plymouth Posts: 1,947	had mine since October & have had no problems of "Surging" sorry.. Have you searched the web for "Camary V6" ...uses the same engine (1MZ-FE) __________________

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18th April 2008, 11:31 PM	#4 (permalink)
robdrinkwater Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 37	Finally got to the bottom of the surging on our 3 litre Estima. I spent ages on it on Wednesday going over all the sensors with my oscilloscopes. Eventually found that the camshaft control solenoid for the rear bank (bank 1) of cyliders was loose in the head & was simply moving back & forth rather than operating the camshaft timing mechanism. Now that the camsaft timing is working correctly on both banks of cylinders she doesn't surge or leap forward when in the warm up phase. The bad news is that this has been the same ever since the new engine was fitted, so that say that the clown who fitted the engine never actually bolted this component in place when he rebuilt the engine. Just wish I had found the problem sooner, it has made the car drivable now, which it was annoying to drive before due to the surging. Regards, Rob.

18th April 2008, 11:55 PM	#5 (permalink)
Frenchman Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 209	Why did the engine need rebuilding? Frenchman

19th April 2008, 01:02 AM	#6 (permalink)
robdrinkwater Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 37	The **** garage that our importer used managed to service the car before we bought it, unfortunately they forgot to put the oil in & started the car, the engine seized a few moments later. Fortunately we claimed on their insurance & they had to fork out for a new short engine, which our heads & ancilliaries were bolted onto, unfortunately they happend to use a company called UK PARTS in West Bromwich. This company managed to do the following to the car, most of which I did not discover until after receiving the car: Removed the engine management light bulb, to try to cover up all the problems. Refitted a rear lambda sensor that had a faulty heater circuit. (now replaced) Refitted a faulty rear camshaft sensor. (Now replaced) Incorrectly fitted the rear camshaft solenoid valve. (now refitted correctly) Failed to fit several rocker cover bolts, causing oil leaks. (now refitted & cured) Neglected to refit several bolts around the engine bay. (lead to power steering pipes flapping around near pulleys) Snapped off split pins on track rod ends & failed to drill out & refit same. Refitted steering wheel upside down. (now how dumb is that) Needless to say the impoter paid for all this & I paid him considerably less for the car than the original agreed price. I haven't bothered to take the car back to UK Parts, as they are totally incompetent & would probably break or bodge something else. I'm just going through Trading Standards in Birmingham now, so hoepfully we should see some compensation & a prosecution shortly. Regards, Rob.

19th April 2008, 08:03 AM	#7 (permalink)
Frenchman Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 209	Right, they sound like a right professional lot I hope you get some compensation out of them, I bet every time you drive the car now you will be worried something else is going to happen. Frenchman

20th April 2008, 04:24 PM	#8 (permalink)
robdrinkwater Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 37	I'm reasonably confident that we have got to the bottom of all the car's woes now, I have had the code reader on & off it since we got it, having replaced so many items. She seems pretty nice to drive now, so hope all is well. Luckily I am in the trade, indeed I teach about vehicle technology, so this stuff is pretty everyday for me, it's just finding the time to do it. It was fortunate that I happened to be with a garage on Wednesday & used the Estima as a donor vehicle for testing, hence we found this problem. Regards, Rob.